data.3news-bydate.train.rec.motorcycles.104918 Maven / Gradle / Ivy
From: [email protected] (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Subject: Re: Countersteering_FAQ please post
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Lines: 67
Distribution: world
Reply-To: [email protected]
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com
In article [email protected], [email protected] (Mike Sixsmith) writes:
>
>>1. All of us that argue about gyroscopes, etc., throughly understand
>>the technique of countersteering.
>
>Including all the ones who think that they countersteer all the way
>through a corner??
Well... all the way through a decreasing-radius corner, anyway...
>This is really the only thing we disagree on. Maybe we should agree to
>disagree??
OK (but I'm right!) :^)
>The official line here (though I do have my doubts about it) is that the
>front brake is applied first, followed by the rear brake, the idea being
>that you avoid locking up the rear after weight transfer takes place.
If that's the "official line" taught in those rider education classes
you were refering to, that also don't teach countersteering, I have to
question the quality of the classes. The "official line" in MSF
curricula is as I described. Maximum braking is achieved by applying
both brakes equally, when the weight distribution is nominally even and
both tires have equal normal forces, and easing off on the rear to
prevent locking it, and increasing braking on the front, as more
traction is available to the front due to increased normal force due to
weight shift.
The "official line" you have been taught seems ineffective on the face
of it. Applying the rear brake after the front is not taking advantage
of all the traction available to the rear at time 0, and is halving the
available braking power by using only the front at time 0.
>>Saying, "brake until the tire just begins to slide" is next to useless
>>advice to a newbie. He has to go out and slide the tire to find out
>>where that is! It also gives him zero information from which to
>>develop a braking technique that changes as the braking and
>>corresponding weight shift develop.
>
>If you don't slide the tyre, you have no way of knowing whether you've
>achieved maximum braking or not. I'm not suggesting that you should always
>aim to brake as hard as you possibly can - but if you want to find the
>limits of the machine, you have to go beyond them.
Not necessarily true. "Chirping" the tire indicates impending lockup
(on most surfaces), and serves as a good guide to newbies to indicate
maximum braking. I agree that totally locking the front occasionally
makes one a better rider, but it is a manuver best saved for an
experienced rider, unless you have one of those outrigger bikes like
Code used to use.
>In any case, for maximum braking, if (as I suggested) you aim to keep
>both wheels just on the point of sliding, then you'll be doing
>exactly as *you* suggest!!
True, but from the point of view of how to best *teach* riding skills
(which is how this discussion started), "keep both wheels just on the
point of sliding" is nearly useless information. You need to teach a
*technique*, or at least a strategy, to achieve this.
---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
[email protected] |and I showed him a picture of you. I said,
DoD #0111 (919)460-8302 |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
(The Grateful Dead) --> |It seemed like the least I could do...